Paterno

[dt]

Dang! Talk about gettin' thrown under the bus. What a way to go out. 

[Croz]

Gotta disagree on that one. Apparently, Joe Pa was told when the grad student walked in on the first discovered molestation in the showers. He reported it up the chain of command but never followed up to make sure something was done. Then he did nothing when Sandusky used to take young boys on team trips as "junior coordinators."

He's not alone in his failure to call the cops. But Sandusky worked for him and, after you knew about the allegations, to allow him to bring young boys on trips? Joe Pa had it fully in his authority to tell him NO, or to even fire him. (Since there was more than that one report.) And he didn't. He decided it was none of his business and allowed it to continue.

He's fortunate he was fired, and not brought up on accessory and other charges.

[dt]

Okay, but no one has said JoePa has done anything wrong which is why there have been no charges filed or planned and, in fact, he followed proper protocol...a protocol that was obviously fraught with problems the way this came out. The way I look at this is he did his job by reporting it through the proper channels established by Penn State. In the business world (let’s assume that we can apply that standard to Penn State…not a lawyer, so don’t know for sure…but I am a biz owner and have had more than my fair share of interactions with labor lawyers) there are ethics laws that are extremely protective of employees in general including those so accused. Those standards, once in place, move the responsibility to deal with an accusation to either an individual (often called ethics director/officer) or a body/committee (often called ethics committee). The thing about these ethics standards is once a matter is placed in their hands, other ethics rules absolutely preclude them from discussing it…again, the laws are at work protecting the employees. So for example, if someone in my company brought an accusation…let’s say sexual harassment…to me (I’m the designated Ethics Officer) and then came back to me and asked how the case was going, I would be required to look them in the eye and say that I’m not at liberty to discuss it with them. Further, and I’m speculating on experience, I believe that if that employee took the matter up directly with the authorities under the similar circumstances (didn’t really see the crime, just heard about it…established protocols in place) that employee and his employer could be faced with some real serious litigation by the accused.

So, back to JoePa…my comment was that he got thrown under the bus. I stand by it. You’re looking at JoePa and so am I. But let’s look at who’s doing the throwing. The throwing of JoePa under the bus yesterday was done by those individuals and the organization that were “directly” responsible for taking action upon the allegations and they did not take action…period…proven in the criminal indictments that are now coming down. I really view this as egregious because it gives the appearance that Joe was implicit in this massive breakdown. It's been publicly report that that is simply not the case. Everyone is mad at the way Penn State handled this and they're taking it out on Joe. I'm just mad at the institution and they threw a guy who has done nothing wrong his entire life under the bus.

[Croz]

I see where you're coming from dt, and I guess I see, factually where you could be right. I'm reminded of a situation I was in about 11 years ago. Coworker at the small company I was at was apparently sending pictures of his wee wee to a 14 year old girl. Unfortunately, when he went to meet her for sex, she turned out to be a 32 year old state trooper. He had a wife and small child.

When he eventually came back to work, we were all called into the conference room and told that he had paid his debt to society etc. and that we should all not judge and just go back to 'normal.' I still refused to speak to him and routed everything I needed to work with him on through his manager. A few years ago, he had the nerve to contact me about getting a reference for a job at the company I'm at now. I told him the best thing he could do for himself is to NOT mention my name. I also made an unofficial call to the hiring manager and suggested he do the criminal background check before going to far in the hiring process.

There are rules in any organization and processes that need to be followed. But I put people who rape children into a different category. Personally, I think any person who had any knowledge of this and continued to work with Sandusky, not do anything possible to stop him from bringing children on trips, etc., deserves to lose their job. There were a lot of people in the Penn State organization who knew of this. And it's not even like it was just something they knew he did in his off hours. He was using his job as a coach to attract kids and bring them into this mess and people stood by and let it happen.

Like I said, I see where you're coming from, but I disagree.

[v65infla]

As a life long fan of the University of Michigan, I have nothing but the greatest respect for Joe Paterno.

That being said, it is my understanding that he did what was legally required of him to do.  That still doesn't square it in my book. 

I don't view it as that he is being thrown under the bus now for not taking action.  I see it more as karma biting him in the ass for not doing the right thing then.  If there was even a hint of impropriety back then and he was so inclined to NOT call the police then at a very minimum he should have immediately called Sandusky into his office and asked him to resign for "Personal reasons".  I am not saying that is going far enough but at the minimum what he should have done.  The fact there were 6 or 7 more victims after it was first reported is reprehensible.  He might not have been able to put a stop to it but at the very minimum he could have kept his program clean by separating Sandusky from the program and contributed to it, rather intentional or not. 

I feel bad for JoePA but I feel even worse for those victims that all get life sentences. 

[dt]

The way this rolled out, Joe had announced in a press conference that he would retire “before” being fired. In his retirement speech he said…

"This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

The key word there is hindsight. Not only does Joe have hindsight, so does everyone else, judging by all the judging (<that includes me btw). What we all lack and will never possess is foresight. There are many things that we would do today if we knew that they would have reprehensible future consequences. If a close friend were similarly accused, I’d be as worried about the consequences of a false accusation as I would about possible future victims. If that close friend said, “Bill, man, that never happened,” I wouldn’t cover it up; rather, I’d do what Joe did by putting it in the hands I thought would have been the right hands. I’d trust the system. Nine years ago, Joe thought the matter was in the right hands…he trusted the system. He was wrong. He said he was wrong. He resigned and never once blamed the system he’d trusted was handling it over nine years. I don’t understand why everyone feels the need to vilify the man under those circumstances.

[v65infla]

The way this rolled out, Joe had announced in a press conference that he would retire “before” being fired. In his retirement speech he said…

"This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

The key word there is hindsight. Not only does Joe have hindsight, so does everyone else, judging by all the judging (<that includes me btw). What we all lack and will never possess is foresight. There are many things that we would do today if we knew that they would have reprehensible future consequences. If a close friend were similarly accused, I’d be as worried about the consequences of a false accusation as I would about possible future victims. If that close friend said, “Bill, man, that never happened,” I wouldn’t cover it up; rather, I’d do what Joe did by putting it in the hands I thought would have been the right hands. I’d trust the system. Nine years ago, Joe thought the matter was in the right hands…he trusted the system. He was wrong. He said he was wrong. He resigned and never once blamed the system he’d trusted was handling it over nine years. I don’t understand why everyone feels the need to vilify the man under those circumstances.

I think this illustrates my feelings in the fact that he didn't do more opened the door for more victims.  Not saying there wouldn't have been but having the notoriety of being on the coaching staff sure made it easier for Sandusky.  I can't see how this is even remotely forgivable?  Were not talking about someone that was caught stealing, was given a second chance and fleeced the University.  Were talking about a capital felony here of sexual assault on minors.  As far as most can tell JoePA ran a spotless program for 46 years but when it came time to probably make one of his hardest decisions he chose what he perceived to be the right thing for his program, NOT what was the right thing.

That all being said I doubt Penn State handled it right either.  I see why they wanted to move forward as quickly as possible but they could have saved a lot of headaches by asking JoePA to re-sign effective immediately.

Let me add that I have a different way of looking at this than most in the fact that I was in a similar position once.  I was in charge of the youth police explorer program and one of the student's came to me with rumor's of one of the underage female explorer's having sex with a police officer.  Not just a police officer but one that I was buddies with and his mother was a secretary in the Detective Bureau for the PD.  Hardest thing I ever did was bring that to light.  But I did immediately and there was an investigation.  He denied it, stuck to his story and the results of her polygraph were inconclusive.  He came out with a reprimand for some small rules violation and he is still an officer today.  I was told by my Capt at the time that if I hadn't come forward with what I was told, they would have hung me out to dry and in the end it probably would have been worse for me that it was for him. 

[dt]

That all being said I doubt Penn State handled it right either.  I see why they wanted to move forward as quickly as possible but they could have saved a lot of headaches by asking JoePA to re-sign effective immediately.

Nor do they continue to handle it right. Below is something in part posted on ABC News at 4:30PM related to comments by Pennsylvania Attorney General Nils Hagen-Frederiksen. In short, he finds it interesting that Penn State fired Joe Paterno, but continues to support and pay the legal bills of the two guys responsible for the cover up and who got handed the criminal indictments.


Pennsylvania's attorney general has voiced "concern" over Penn State University's firing of legendary football coach Joe Paterno and the treatment of other witnesses and officials involved in a child sexual abuse case. "We have a cooperating witness [Paterno], an individual who testified, provided truthful testimony," Hagen-Frederiksen told ABCNews.com, "but two others who were found by a grand jury to commit perjury whose legal expenses are being paid for by the university. One is on administrative leave. Very interesting development. It's certainly curious and [has] not been explained yet," he said. "Speaking as a prosecuting agency, we have a cooperating witness who has not been charged, while two individuals accused of committing crimes continue to be affiliated."

[v65infla]

That all being said I doubt Penn State handled it right either.  I see why they wanted to move forward as quickly as possible but they could have saved a lot of headaches by asking JoePA to re-sign effective immediately.

Nor do they continue to handle it right. Below is something in part posted on ABC News at 4:30PM related to comments by Pennsylvania Attorney General Nils Hagen-Frederiksen. In short, he finds it interesting that Penn State fired Joe Paterno, but continues to support and pay the legal bills of the two guys responsible for the cover up and who got handed the criminal indictments.


Pennsylvania's attorney general has voiced "concern" over Penn State University's firing of legendary football coach Joe Paterno and the treatment of other witnesses and officials involved in a child sexual abuse case. "We have a cooperating witness [Paterno], an individual who testified, provided truthful testimony," Hagen-Frederiksen told ABCNews.com, "but two others who were found by a grand jury to commit perjury whose legal expenses are being paid for by the university. One is on administrative leave. Very interesting development. It's certainly curious and [has] not been explained yet," he said. "Speaking as a prosecuting agency, we have a cooperating witness who has not been charged, while two individuals accused of committing crimes continue to be affiliated."

That certainly at least raises questions and makes it interesting, huh?

[dt]

That certainly at least raises questions and makes it interesting, huh?

Indeed. If the University is trying to distance itself from the whole scandal, you’d think they would cut all ties. On the other hand, I can see the University's lawyers thinking that's a good idea so they can keep a finger on the pulse on the former prez and AD's defense tactics...and maybe influence it to some degree.

[v65infla]

Watch this video interview of the victim that brought this out and see if you still feel that JoePA should not have been fired.

http://gma.yahoo.com/penn-state-scandal-mother-alleged-victim-says-son-082520374.html

I think my position remain's the same.  Even if he did what was legally required he didn't do the the right thing morally speaking.  Even if there is some self risk, I think he should have taken the chance.

[dt]

Watch this video interview of the victim that brought this out and see if you still feel that JoePA should not have been fired.

Did you mean to link that video or did you mean to link a different one? The one linked is an interview of the victim's mom...

...and as to her and this interview, I feel sorry for her as a parent, but geewizz. Parents are the first line of defense and you can’t pass the buck on that responsibility. Thirty seconds into the video she tells George that her son asked about specifically checking to see if Jerry Sandusky was publicly listed as a sex offender. I can assure you that I’d have wanted to get way way way down to the bottom of that one! Yet she admits she didn’t and less than a year later he’s sleeping over in Jerry’s basement.

High schools letting non-family members remove children from schools without the parent’s knowledge? WTF! That’s absolutely not supposed to happen. Other observations of Jerry Sandusky’s odd behaviors…way before this made it into the Penn State locker room.

I think that what I take from that particular video and article is that the breakdown (and let down of the victim) is way more extensive than I understood. There were lots of widespread indications something was afoul many of which are described in the video. I’m confused why Mike McQueary’s name wasn’t brought up once.

I’ve been thinking and I don’t have a response to the question at the moment. I might have one later.

[v65infla]

I just listened to the recap of Mike McQueary's testimony to the grand jury on the CBS Evening News.  I think I need to go throw up now.   

[dt]

The news that's been rolling out for the past week has really been inconsistent and actually contradictory in some respects. One thing I'm glad about was Sandusky waiving the preliminary hearing. While he and his lawyer were widely criticized in the press for doing that, to me it simply means the actual trial will start sooner.