I bought another bike, rebuild project Honda CB360

[mrbones]

Some how another old Honda project bike was calling me. Maybe I just needed some thing to break up the mundane, tedious and routine grind of every day. Who knows? But I went out and bought #7 in the stable. A 1974 Honda CB360. Got it for $200. It has 21,000 miles.

"jbikeparts" is a good ebay seller. He's in New Port Richey. Maybe he's got what you need for old parts and such.
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/merchant/jbikeparts

I picked it up yesterday and luckily, it's in better shape than it could have been. The tires are fairly new, the rims have little rust, the exhaust is ok. Tank is junk. It has a set of keys. It needs the typical old bike stuff, fork seals, carb rebuilds, cables and a lot of cleaning. I found a registration in the glove box from 2004. So the bike has been street worthy rather recently.

This is going to be a Cafe Racer. So the tank, seat, rear fender and rack all have to go. Everything will be stripped off that isn't used. It's going to be disassembled to the frame. The frame will be gold. Tank and tail black. Probably a gold strip down the middle to match the frame. That's the plan anyway! All ways good to have a plan! It could, of course, change at any moment!

[mrbones]

First plan of attack is to go at it with steel wool and clean it all up. I did a compression test of the engine today and the left side is 170 and the right is 200. This is good news! I won't have to rebuild it. The tranny shifts through all 6 gears, too. Whew! I took a look at the carbs and the slides were gummed up. The float bowls are also gummy. Need to be cleaned out. I found a small tear in the diaphram for the slides. I'm not sure if it matters. I'll have to investigate. I'm sure these diaphrams are no longer available.

Here's something interesting. The tires are good but there's a 3.5" on the front and a 3.0" on the back. WTF? I was hoping not to have to deal with tires, but I'll have to switch them around. The fatter one needs to go on the back. Somebody messed up installing these.

[CustomMagna]

You're lucky Bones. My wife would kill me if I had so many bikes.

[mrbones]

Here's the latest photos. I cleaned up the chrome, removed the rack, rear fender, brake light, handlebars. I added my old SV650 bars. I was going to mount them upside down, but they hit the gas tank.

Found out a bad thing about the carbs. They need good diaphragms (2) with no holes AND they cost about $100 / each. Not sure what I'm going to do about that yet. Gotta search some more for a cheaper source for them. The other alternative is to replace the carbs altogether with 32 or 34mm slide types. Plus, the battery has to be moved in order to use pod air filters.

I have to find a gas tank, too. I need something rectangular, late 60's or early 70's Honda. On the search I go.

[mrbones]

I bought a '74 CB200 tank today on ebay. It has a nice rectangular shape. I hope it fits!

[mrbones]

Just posting this for my own reference.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Motorcycle-Repair-837/1974-Honda-CB-360.htm

[mrbones]

Still don't have that tank yet. Lame ebay seller. It's expected Tuesday. I bought a set of carbs for $80. The ones that came with the bike are trashed. Time to go in the garage and paint something.

[mrbones]

I just sold the rack off the bike for $33 on ebay. It's a nice little rebate on the purchase price of the bike.

[mrbones]

Over the weekend I polished up a couple of engine covers. Super shiny!

[mrbones]

For reference. This guy shows some good bead blasting and made his own gauge faces on a CB360.

http://wagtail.home.att.net/Page1.htm

[dt]

Speaking of bead blasting, I bought one of those hand-held jobs about six months ago. It’s great for blasting decades of crud off of engines (using 80 grit glass bead) and shines them up to look good like the pics in the link above (using both the glass and 20 grit walnut shell). Of course it depends on what shape the engine is in to begin with. Since it’s a spot blaster, you can direct the spray into an area with a tarp to reduce the mess. I use it on a 25 gallon upright air-compressor at around 150psi. Since it’s only got a 2.6 hp motor, I need to stop and let the pressure replenish about every 90 seconds. If you’ve got a stud compressor, that wouldn’t be necessary. Anyway, it’s one more thing that I can do…and control…when working on old bikes.

Oh, you absolutely need a respirator and a set of tight-fitting goggles that have no vents if you use these things.

[mrbones]

Thanks for the tip. I've never used one before. Where can I buy one? Or better yet, rent? Not sure when I'll need it again.

[dt]

Before I got this thing, or even knew about it, I checked everywhere around Tampa to rent a media blaster and came up short. But it’s actually only a $30 piece of equipment; some less on eBay. There’s really nothing to the thing, actually. It works just like a gravity paint sprayer. I got mine at Harbor Freight on Fletcher and Florida. Here are links to the Harbor Freight products I use (they have all kinds of blast media):

Blaster-$30- http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45998
80 Grit Glass Media-$25 - http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46426
24 Grit Walnut Media-$25- http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92155

Again, there’s nothing to the blaster; your air compressor may be a different story. It’s important that your compressor can accommodate the blaster. If not, a compressor might be the piece of equipment that you need to rent. Here’s why:

The blaster requires 7CFM at 90PSI (see the specs on the linked site). That means the compressor must be able to consume or take in 7 cubic feet of air per minute in order to sustain 90 PSI and keep the equipment working properly (every air driven piece of equipment has a required CFM; every air compressor has a maximum CFM). 7 is actually a lot of CFM.

I’ve done the trial and error on this blaster and, bottom line; it operates best at 125-150PSI, irrespective of what the directions say. So the math gets you needing an air compressor rated at 9.72CFM. That’s what I call a stud compressor that most pro shops wish they had.

My Sears compressor has a 2.6 HP electric motor, a 25 gallon tank, max of 175PSI and a rating of 5 CFM. It’s a fairly serious compressor, but in order to use this blaster, in the 125-150PSI range, I need to stop after every minute or so of use and let the compressor build the PSI up. But if I had fewer CFM or if I had a smaller tank (like 5-10 gallon) I’d be stopping every few seconds and then it might not be worth it.

So I can make this blaster work with my compressor by being patient; so far the results never let me down (engine, hubs-outside and in, rims, frame, etc.). It’s paid for itself countless times.

On the trial and error part, one big (real super big) error I’ll share…when I first got the blaster, I had the compressor too close to the work area and the glass dust got through the filter and into the compressor pistons, scored the crap out of them and required replacement. Sears replaced the pistons/sleeves under warranty, but I had to put up with a big lecture by the repair guy. I now use a 25 hose and keep the compressor at a distance. Did I mention you should wear a respirator?

[mrbones]

Thanks for the info. Definitely an inexpensive piece of hardware. I could have used that thing many times on previous builds. My compressor is a Craftsman 2HP 12 gallon. Based on what you said, I think its too weak to run the gun. What about this smaller gun the HF sells?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93221

Maybe that would be sufficient?

Oh, and what type of grit is best for an old Honda engine? The 24 or 80 grit?

[dt]

HF didn’t have that smaller model when I got mine. I’m going to pick one up and try it out this weekend (on the demon Bultaco). Compared to the bigger model, I suspect that what I get from the lower CFM, I’ll give up with the smaller hopper. That is, where I had to stop and let the pressure build, I’ll have to stop just as often and fill the hopper. However, for $12, if it works better it’ll be worth it to me. I’ll report back on the specifics about what the best PSI is for it. What’s your max PSI on the Craftsman?

IMPORTANT NOTE: I called HF just to see if they had it, which they have 19, except, they said that it was $20. I told them about the website ad and they said if we bring a printout of the website ad, they’ll honor it. So, make sure you take the printout for $8 off the store price.

I would bet that this smaller model blaster would work on just about any compressor that has the right max PSI. I’ll also bet that’s going to be greater than 90, though. Again, I’ll let you know after I try it.

On the media, I think you should try the 80 grit glass bead for a bunch of reasons. First, I did some internet research on this smaller blaster, and it takes nothing courser than 40 grain/grit. The 24 grit fine walnut is out. Second, looking at your bike pics, most everything that you’re going to blast, other than the frame, is soft-metal, like aluminum, and there are some chrome items. The 80 grit glass is for delicate metals like these; it cleans and then polishes. Third and last, I’ve used it on jugs, heads, cranks, hubs, etc. and it works. This isn’t to say there’s not a better media out there (there’s only a million), but I’ve only used the 80 glass and 24 walnut. This is just something I do in my garage on weekends and I don’t want to stock pile all different kinds of media.

Once again, I tried and failed to put some pics on the Forum page of before and after shots (my pics are too big). So I’ve dedicated a Special Page to you for this purpose on my website. Click the link and I’ve got before and after shots of a Honda and Yamaha engine, and before and after shots of the Yamy hubs.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res6zvot/id21.html

Before you jump in, it might be worth looking over some info on the different types of media. Here’s a link to a site with the types and uses and there are others if you google “blast media” or “abrasive media.”

http://www.kramerindustriesonline.com/blasting-media.htm

[mrbones]

Your stuff looks great. I love how you can get the between the fins on the cylinder heads and on the inside of hubs on the wheels. It looks like new again.

I've got a coupon for HF that expires at the end of the month. I might go there tomorrow a get that cheaper gun. Thanks for the tip about printing out the price from the website. I certainly will do that. I'll get a bag of the 80 grit. My compressor goes up to 120 PSI I think so it should work.

I could've used this type of thing when I rebuilt my '73 ST90. Instead, I wire wheeled everything and painted it. I could still use it on it's wheels though.

[mrbones]

I mounted the tank today. I had to cut the diameter of the rubber holders on the front of the tank and hammer the back tab down. Then I made a bracket to bolt it down. It fits really well and doesn't move at all. The petcock is also in the right position and it is also the same as the type as the stock one as it has two outlets.

Now I just have to find a Cafe seat that will fit. Most are made for bigger bikes so it's hard to narrow it down. I have to sort all this out before I break it down for paint.

[mrbones]

I bought that one smaller bead blaster at Harbor Freight yesterday. I might return it today. Reason being, it runs out of bead in about 10 seconds. I'm pretty sure I'm using it properly. I think a piece of sand paper might be more effective. Too bad I don't have a bigger compressor or I'd get the larger gun. It's just not in the cards to buy a new compressor. 

[dt]

Perhaps I can help...check your bikerflorida.com email for an offline message.

[mrbones]

Thanks to DT2MX for coming over and bead blasting the engine. It's lookin' good. I gave up polishing those side covers. I just couldn't take it anymore. The right one was all scratched up and corroded and wasn't polishing very well. I've already spray painted them. Done in an hour!

I may have figured out why the bike was parked. The left intake valve had a missing nut and the adjusting bolt was cross threaded. I took the head off and found the nut. Then I coaxed the bolt and got the threads ok. While I was in there I took the head off and changed the head gasket. I read in the Honda manual that if engine compression is over 170, it needs to be decarbonized. So, I dremeled it all off and got the combustion chambers all nice and shiney.

I also got the cafe seat that I ordered and mounted it. I made a rear mount out of aluminum and had to grind off all the tabs from the rear section of the frame. That was fun! There's nothing like taking out some aggression with sparks flying! While I was at it, I ground down all the ugly welds on the frame. So now its looking pretty good.

I'm switching color schemes, too. The frame will be burnt copper. Like a color you'd see in the 70's. I've seen a few new cars and trucks this color, too. Retro I guess. The gold I was going to use was just too light.

That's it for now!

Next step is to reassemble the engine, dismantle the rolling chassis and paint the frame. Then change the fork seals and paint the lowers and triple trees. I'll also have to swap the tires from front to back and paint the hubs. Then put it all back together. That won't take long at all huh?

[mrbones]

I took a few pics before I started to tear it down. So here they are. I started to paint the frame yesterday with copper color paint. It's looking good! I'll post some pics of that later.

[mrbones]

I just finished painting the frame. I made a rig to hold it up while painting. A sawhorse and a fork leg stuck into an outdoor umbrella stand.

[dt]

That’s certainly a creative solution to painting a frame. Here’s one to try maybe sometime…hang the frame at the steering stem with a bungee from the top run of a folding ladder (I use a seven footer) so it swivels underneath. It’s a huge mess to the ladder, but you can get at the thing, top and bottom, with even coats.

I don't see where you'd mentioned the tank color. Are you keeping the green?

[mrbones]

Copper and green? Blah!

The tank and tail will be black. So will the forks.

[dt]

Yup, copper and green would be a tough color scheme. I've seen worse though. In fact, I just saw someone selling a pink Harley with light blue trim on Craigslist. Wheew!